Still awaits the obvious link straight into pugacious for a classic 45m pitch! Still a great sport route, safe and convenient and well worth a look!

Roger Parkyn on his new route at Table Mountain - Under The Table (23). Photo Jed Parkes.

★★ Under The Table 20m 23
Up the face to the small roof and through this. Crux at the third bolt (22, go rightwards slightly) and then passing the roof (23). 7 bolts to a DBB. Note: currently the bolts are not fully tightened as the intention is to replace them with U's; take care in the meantime.
Roger Parkyn, Elizabeth Oh, Jed Parkes. Jan 2013.

Say Jon–not sure if it is because I'm on a Mac, but I can't seem to access many of the pages–for example, Larks Edge page just comes up 

blank. And some of the other pages just seem to blank as well (And this text editor acts funny too).  Thesarvo has always been slow to load on a mac, but with Confluence 4.3, it's really slow.

Also, the link to the downloadable books in Lulu seems to be broken.  When I went to the Lulu site and typed in jnermut, I saw the bouldering guides and the Mountain guides, but not the general Tasmanian guides.

FYI

No It's not your Mac John, I use a PC and the Larks Edge guide seems to have disappeared!

I added a new climb the other day when I visited the Corra Linn area:

3. * Affecting crucifixion 13m 22

Ascends the front face between JCP and Stanley Pub, joining JCP near the top. Great moves, but quite a committing crux... bomber gear comes at each horizontal! 

Hamish Jackson, Shumita Joseph 1/1/13

Also: I suggest changing the description of crystal laces as follows:

"On the downstream end of the buttress...”

Change to:

“On the upstream end of the buttress...”

It’s already easy to find Crystal Laces if you’re online with the topo, but confusion can arise from this error if using the thesarvo app where there is no topo. 

Finished another 2 pitch route left of Remembrance which takes the nice looking arete which is pretty obvious when you are up there on Remembrance. Dunno about the grade, thought it was 23 but then felt easier today with the moves wired.

★★ 45. Peregrine 48m 22/23 Þ
Start 5m down and left from Roast Chicken and Remembrance.
1. 28m 21 A back-to-basics pitch that starts with some hollow flakes, then some nice face climbing, until you end up on a ledge with a Hakea. From here do a move around left to find the belay. A small cam or wire adds some extra protection for the last move. 9 bolts.
2. 20m 22/23 Get what you came for - step left and climb the great technical arete. 10 bolts.
Dave Humphries, Jon Nermut (alt), Feb 2013.

A new all trad route on Flange buttress.
The Kundalini Flow 26 50m
Starts up crack of 'big sticks and beatings' for 5m then follow Neon God'
for the rest of the route. A more challenging and committing version of Neon God. Avoid looking at the rings 
FA Adam Donoghue Feb 2013

Its a bit of a variant to neon god really.  The protectable obvious start is the thin crack 1.5m to the right of neon god start, you come back into neon god at 3rd bolt.  I did it on a single rope so doesn't stray too far from neon god. Its a pretty unlikely looking trad route but the gear comes together pretty well overall.

Gerry Narkowicz's daughter Jemimah has done a new route at Tea Pot Rocks at South Sister 

New one at the Paradiso, awesome climbing thats less cruxy and more sustained than other routes at this grade. Enjoy!

Sac de le Douche, 145m 25

Starts 4m L of Offender, up past roof through crux bulge. Clip U on offender(long runner) and head up and L through next bulge. Continue up and L through final headwall guarding the chains. Quality climbing the whole way. (would only be 25m on the mainland )

Theres plenty more new routes going up on the pipes. 

This one from Tony yesterday:

Death Rattle       16           42m

Walk about 50m north (right) from the junction of the Great Tier and the new Central Buttress track, passing under a massive triangular overhang up high, to the foot of a small sub buttress. The route climbs the sharp fin of rock. Gets a star in our book for the magic finishing crack, classic Pipes climbing.

1. 16 30m Start with either the short, angular chimney on L or the nose to the steep fin which is climbed direct. Belay on ledge.
2. 16 12m Ignore the leering off width above  and climb the hand crack instead round on the L, starting behind the hakea. Lovely jubbly and even better now the rattling block has departed in a cloud of shrapnel.

T. McKenny, A. Beech, March 2013.

Dave and I finished the first part of another route on Central Buttress, that may one day right to the top:

★★ 44. Heat 46m 21 Þ
Start down to the R of Acid Test on the next buttress.
1. 18m 21 Up the face easily until the crux between the 3rd and 5th bolt, continue up to a large ledge and DBB. 7 bolts.
2. 28m 21 Step R from the belay into the black streak. Nice climbing until that runs out, then head left to a ledge and the arete above it, to finish at a DBB. 11 bolts.
There is potential for more pitches above.
D. Humphries, J. Nermut, March 2013.

Also today Roger Parkyn did a new grade 23 sport route on Flange Buttress:

★★ 9. Train of Thought 24m 23
Climb the wall left of Bert's Fear, starting at the base of the Bert's Fear chimney. There is thin crux at the second U and then a pumpy hike to the top (all sport). The bulge at about three-quarter height provides a second crux; it is passed slightly right of center (where the U is).
Roger Parkyn; Owen Gervasoni. Mar 2013.

Hamish Jackson has done a few new routes on Bulging and Flange, details also to come.

Unfortunately one/two of the new routes is on the piece of rock as Train of Thought - same line, quite a differnt climb. I mentioned this route to Jon a few weeks back and he recommeded I write them up with a photo topo included (which was good advice I must add). I haven't had time to get back up there for a photo so had delayed writing up the route. Here are the descriptions of the climbs we did on the wall left of Bert Fear I wrote three weeks back:

Spittoon 25m 22**

Sustained climbing up the white face and small roofs right of Spitters; not bolted to maintain the bold trad theme of this wall. Requires specific gear as noted:

 Start at  Bert's fear and place a good wire 2m up then traverse left to small ledge in the middle of the face. Place size blue metolius master cam (0.3 camalot) in the small pocket then boldly up through overlap to a size 5 smiley stopper (#5 BD micro stopper also works OK, #4 may work slightly better) - both pieces of gear were tested with lead falls. Good small and medium cams are found below black rooflet , then great moves through this and finish up wall above. Abseil from fixed slings. 

 Alternative finish 'Bert's butter menthol' 30m 24*** 

Sensational moves through the right end of the roof (a very good size   #5 RP  is hidden in crack 50cm aboveRH end of rooflet). Up thin crack to finish at ledge- walk left to slings.  

Hamish Jackson and Tim Smith (alt lead/team effort) 

I have tried to contact Roger to discuss this incident, it obviously raises a number of issues and questions. We will discuss what the best approach will be, together. Roger was probably unaware of our efforts, although I must say I am quite surprised he didn't notice the evidence of our rather extensive cleaning efforts. The bigger issue is placement of bolts where natural gear is adequate. This is a widespread issue for the organ pipes where we are trying to maintain both sport and trad climbing on the same cliff. In this case the climbs were bold, but very safe, done on natural.

Bulging Buttress:

Equipoise 35m 23**

Can't see why the trad line and the sport line can't coexist ? (i know which one is going to get more traffic though)

That sounds like the line I looked up at more than once hamish. i think i'd rather a good bold trad route if it is amply protected more than another dolerite sport route.

In my mind however this proves that the FA party doesn't have the final say, as just because you climbed it first, doesn't mean you know how to fit that route in best with the local ethics etc. No when we ask the FA which team do we ask, as they both had the FA thought process and came to a conclusion at different end of the spectrum. I kind of think that i would have rather it bolt free. Theres a lot of convenient climbing on that crag, but few good routes in this style/grade range i think. More and more I'm starting to think climbing shouldn't be a process of going out to tick another route, some things need to be saved. I like the idea of scary routes that not everyone can climb, elitist maybe, but there needs to be something left to aspire too!

(I assume gear was placed on lead for the ascent?)

The gear was placed on lead but not before we made sure the sequences worked and the gear was adequate on top rope several times with testing of a couple of key pieces with simulated factor 2 falls - we initially went in with the idea that we may have had to put a bolt or two in to make it more appealing but after thorough inspection we found secure placements at really quite reasonable spacing. There are not many facey routes at this grade on gear on the mountain so we are pretty excited about the way it came up. On the third route that Hamish has listed we had to place one bolt but the outcome is certainly a good balance between maintaining a style while also being mindful of safety and the risk appetite for future ascentionsts.

Simon I am glad that you say that you would like to see more of this style of climbing preserved.

Jed it is somewhat of a moot point as to which route gets more traffic, where will the oportunities for this type of climbing be if the default position is to be accessible to those who don't wish to climb with gear. Co-existance means that sometimes the choice will have to be to preserve some of these walls for non-sport climbing (and by this I mean pure trad lines and mainly trad lines with occasional fixed protection where no other options exist). Often people will say just don't clip the bolts but that really shows no deference to those who would like the opportunity to climb without. It would be analagous to going to a sport climbing area, manufacturing a gear placement and saying don't use it as a hold.

I don't wish to start some kind of over-zealous debate but what I will say is what should we do when this happens? In this instance they may not be exactly the same lines, as Simon accurately said both first ascentionists were coming at the same problem from different starting points, and I am certainly not trying to villify anyone. But what do we then do - this is why I think that it is important to establish some kind of conflict resolution strategy as part of the code of conduct (yes I am slowly getting there between work and not wanting to be on a computer any more than necessary).

please lets not start another flame war before hamish and roger have had a chance to talk...

I agree with the bold trad lines being more inspiring than a line of bolts. No comment on spittoon as i havent been up there since but i know which i would rather.

PLEASE do not put that info about gear in the guide book. If its a thin face route i would be taking all that gear anyway, and half the challenge is figuring it out. Why bother with a bold trad route if you know every piece and how good it is beforehand? If you want this info rap it.

Thanks for your input Alex, Simon et al. There is a view among many Hobart climbers that climbs should be ‘user friendly’, so we included the gear notes above with this in mind. I respect your alternative opinion and know some of your record of inspiring leads of bold style. With this support from you (and Doug Bruce too) request that my description be truncated in the guide as this would actually be my personal inclination too if I was a punter for a repeat ascent (if Tim and Roger agree). I like ground up, bold onsight style more than anything else in climbing... on a good day anyway, on a bad day there’s nothing worse! I ascended Spitters in this style many years ago (?99) and have never forgotten it. It was then I dreamed of ascending Spittoon in the same fashion. When I came back to it this year I found I didn’t have the nerve, partly as there were actually many fine loose flakes coming off on my initial attempt... my family urged me not to kill myself on the climb so yes I did test two crucial pieces during my cleaning session so I was convinced I wasn’t being a maniac when it came to the ascent. It’s much cleaner now with many flakes gone. We still found our ascents quite exciting Alex, but yes, the ultimate onsight ground up ascents remain to be done and maybe you’re the one! Maybe you’ll find it all tame, and laugh at us, I say ‘fantastic' if so. I think you’re much fitter than either of us. BTW the variant coming up and across from Spitters makes it even more exciting if that’s your game. 

It is true, looking up at the lines you can see that the gear will be small and medium wires and cams, the positions to place all the gear are fine so we could truncate to "good placements where you most need them"

On a pragmatic note: How do we stop this duplication in the future? My suggestion would be that the first documented ascent is the first ascent (could be a listing in the new routes forum even). This makes it  particularly important for trad routes to be written up as soon as they are done. Even a simple name, location and ascensionists would give others someone to contact.

i agree with Alex that standard thin gear doesnt need to be mentioned, an indication such as "small tcu's helpful" cant cover specific gear. Its standard fare it seems to assume most people have BD cams, and the other popular brands aren't far behind. Again I'd love to onsight it proper! 

I might try and get up to climb it this week? Sounds like my kinda thing!! Again i dont think its all about the opinion of the FA team(s) as we've proven that you can still come to any conclusion on the FA, not always the best one. As for the bolt on Equipose, sounds totally legit! I do however disagree that bolts can be pulled/moved without more significant visual impact than a bush!!

Ill hold off any judgement till i've climbed it but my gut feeling is I'd rather no bolts, but a lower-off to make it user friendly. Is there one in place now roger? 

Ok so just got back from a fun afternoon climbing on the pipes. I onsighted Spitoon, then climbed Train of Thought. Unfortunately on ToT i broke a jug off while resting on it, narrowly missing my belayer (sorry Liz)!! Then I pulled back on and went to the top. My two cents:

I usually warm up on routes about 22, Spittoon felt like a scary, bold undertaking that felt awesome to pull off. Felt run out on marginal gear, you wouldn't deck but potential to go a long way. What a climb though! One of the better experiences i've had up there this summer, felt fairly out-there to me. Had pretty pumped calves from fiddling, trying to get gear to fit! Would definitely recommend it, maybe not if 22 is your onsight limit.

I then climbed ToT (one fall due to busted hold). My train of thought was mostly why didn't it start 5m lower and climb the obvious face into the line?! I thought it climbed a very different line, and i only used about 3-4 holds that i did on Spittoon. It does climb the Berts Butter Menthol finish, which i didn't think was harder than the Spittoon rooflet, just be more bold on gear, especially onsight!! Definitely worthy of the two stars.

What do i think to do from here? Move two bolts. Where ToT climbs past the Spittoon traverse i would suggest moving one bolt down 50cm, and one up 50cm. This would make it very difficult to clip the bolts from Spittoon while allowing the traverse to be made in between the bolts so to speak. Again they climb very different lines, the bolts needed to be right of where ToT climbs due to the rock. The top two bolts could be removed as there is good gear and the climbing eases off. The lower-off is great and should definitely stay!! I think moving these two bolts would allow people to experience both climbs much as the respective FA teams intended. The #5 RP placement looked enhanced to me so can't really say I think its a better option than the nearby bolt. I also think it felt more like 23 than 24 around that bulge, even sans the hold i pulled off (lefthand sidepull).

So i think the routes can live side by side. It's not a case of choose to clip the bolts or don't, they climb different lines. If you moved those two bolts i think it would maintain good style and minimise any more impact. I also think adding a lower start is the line i would have chosen for the face! As for saying if you regularly onsight 22 its not a bold climb, that's nonsense! I fit the your description but it didn't feel like a walk in the park! You still have to try, holds still break and gear still rips. The ground is just as hard!

Simon, great to have some first hand input from someone who’s done both - Tim and I did recognise the line 1-2m right, did it on TR, and we wondered if TOT ascended this. I’d like to go and have a look myself at the exact bolt placements but having spent time on that face I’m surprised one could have bolts that close to Spittoon without undermining the Spittoon experience but as I said I haven’t seen the placements. Simon could you also comment about the lower bolts on Tot - surely they change the first 5m of Spittoon  - which is not straightforward in itself?

Alex- maybe you could go and try BBM!? It’s pretty pumpy getting the RP slotted and makes the 23 moves feel more like 24 I reckon. We feel placing that RP on lead is an amazing part of the BBM experience! The RP placement used to have a flake rattling about inside which we rattled and rattled until it came free.

I'm flattered that I'm never far from your thoughts Gerry! Your mullet brings style not even the SS can compare to. Think there should be Shit Simon Style with a Mullet, the mullet making up for all!

Re: The bolts left of Bert’s Fear

This addition was a mistake on my part as I genuinely thought that face had not been climbed.  I had several reasons for concluding this but they were wrong.  Had I known of the already existing climbs I definitely would not have added any bolts. 

It has been suggested that the bolts may be on a different line to Spittoon.  Having talked to Tim and Hamish I think there is so much shared ground that this is not the case. 

One thing that is agreed amongst all climbers is that the first ascentionist gets to make the call about the style of the route and how it is prepared.  For this reason I am happy for Tim and Hamish to decide, and do, whatever they set fit with the routes they have created.  Although everyone is free to express their opinion about what should now happen to the bolts, the final decision is up to Tim and Hamish to make.  In the end we will all abide by it; even those who disagree. 

Although I didn’t know that a route had been done, I guess it is fair to say that I have let my enthusiasm get away with me: the sport version is exactly the sort of climb I love, after all.  In retrospect there were doubts and I could have done more research which may have saved us all a lot of bother.  Similarly, prompt write-ups are helpful for everyone, even if there isn’t any law saying you have to log-on immediately after the send. 

On a personal level I’ve found all this a bit hard.  I’d like to thank Tim and Hamish for being so reasonable about it. 

rock climbers are funneeeeeeee!

I wasn't going to post anything on here because at the end of the day it seems like everyone's opinions just get ignored and people do what that want anyway.

But i know there are lots of voices out there thinking the same way I am (I've spoken to them) but they won't say anything here cause the don't want to get involved in the politics of climbing for multiple reasons. Me, I've always made my options known so here they are.

I think just because you did the first ascents doesn't give you ownership rights to make all decisions on that climb (or cliff) Who does? that's another whole can of worms but i would like to think that the community of climbers could talk about it and come to some kind of decision.

I think removal of the bolts is going to create a trad climb for few and spoil a sport climb for many. I don't think this is a moot point. I've done my fair share of scary trad climbs and when i get to the top (without dying) the feeling is unforgettable, I'll forget half the sport routes i'll ever do so I can see why people seek out this kind of climbing and i respect that but i don't think it means that it should take away from other peoples climbing. Adam has climbed Neon God on gear now, does this means the bolts are going to get removed? NO but it's now opened up peoples train of thought that they don't need to use the bolts and they can decide either way. Don't get me wrong i don't think that trad lines should be bolted but obviously some peoples idea of trad lines is very different from others. I think this is because some peoples idea of what is amply protected is very different from others. Top rope a route till you've got it dialed then simulate some falls on the prefigured out gear till you're confident enough to lead it doesn't sounds like the kind of trad climbing I want to do.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Happy climbing everyone 

The bulk of this discussion and resolution was undertaken off-line to avoid misinterpretation, slander, strawman arguments and to have constructive discussion between those most familiar with the climbs in question. There are details that are not included in this post.

I would suggest that the best thing to do for those who wish to contribute to the specifics of this incident, as opposed to expressing opinion or a philospohical thought bubble, is to go do the route (with a thought to where gear is situated, spacing, size, safety etc) and talk to both parties involved in the different ascents - my contact details are readily available.  

This might be an opportunity for a real compromise, and perhaps to find a "third way".

Tim, you have expressed the POV that it would be good to establish a set of protocols so that, where conflict arises, a structure is in place to resolve that conflict. I haven't time right now to go back through all of the productive discussion that you initiated, but it seems to me that a good starting point would be to listen to what the wider Hobart climbing community has to say. I'm not suggesting that simply a democratic vote is the way to solve this, but that weighing up what a wider range of opinions than just the two main protagonists might be useful.

I tend to agree with Jed that " first ascents doesn't give you ownership rights". Mostly, we adhere to that general philosophy but, I think in most places, if someone botches the setting up of bolts on a sport climb, usually a member of the local community will go back and try to fix it. Likewise, if there is a dangerous loose block on a trad route or someone puts an absolute sandbag grade on a new route, general consensus will result in the route being regraded in guidebooks - be they online or print.

Simon has commented that he thinks the routes could co-exist (although a later post somewhat muddies the waters) and asks why didn't the route start 5 metres lower? He also suggests pulling the top bolts on Train of Thought as there is natural gear readily available. I'm wondering if a reasonable compromise might be for Train of Thought to start lower in the middle of the face and move up and right, thus crossing Spittoon and BBM?

Just a thought, but maybe a chance to make the most of a less than ideal situation.

You're wrong Tim. Just because i haven't spoken to you does not mean i have not sought to ask questions. Actually I've spoken with loads of people just not you. I live with Simon and Alex who both totally disagree with my views on this matter but I did discuss it.

Surely the original ascent style is the fallback position. This is the standard outside of the wider Hobart community.

In Jed's Strawman of Neon God the FA was on bolts... thus it's a sport route. If Repeat ascentionists want to skip some or all bolts, bully for them. This is not a difficult concept for trad climbers who are accustomed to using more or less gear than other climbers on the same route.

Back on the actual topic, a route was climbed in traditional style, thus it's a trad route. If this is not acceptable for some, then there are a few options:

1. Go away and get stronger and better at placing gear, then try it.
2. Go away, tail firmly between legs and admit to yourself you're not up for this one.
3. Rap in, place gear on rap and sport climb on pre-placed gear.
4. Rap in, set a top rope anchor and top rope it.
5. If you must lead it because, well, saying you led it floats your boat, rap in, set a top rope anchor, tie a series of loops in a static at 1 metre intervals put your 'draws on it and clip away to your heart's content, knowing that you led it (woooooo!) and that you didn't have to deface the rock or spend any money on bolts that are going to end up being chopped.

This is not directed at Roger, I think we have accepted that he innocently bolted it unknowingly, and that Tim and Hamish also took a little (but certainly not untoward) amount of time in recording. 

Seems to me lessons learned on a few sides, and also a good example of problem solving face to face being nicer than online 

Dear all,

This entry details the facts of the Spittoon case and some of my reasons for our chosen approach. I have been withholding a response to Roger’s statement until Simon Young, Tim and I practice the removal of a U-bolt ‘on the ground’ as we want to ensure a good job is done if the tot bolts are removed. I would like to thank Simon for his offer of assistance as I admit my expertise is limited in this area.

I am personally very open to constructive, well thought-out comments on this matter as I recognise the bigger picture here is one of getting the various types of climbing styles to co-exist as best as possible on the mountain. I have particularly valued Simon’s input as he went to the trouble of trying to climb the routes in question, he also called Roger and myself to be well informed. It turns out Simon did a hard trad onsight ground up route to the right of our climbs and was confused at the time of commenting above! As other comments are now arising, I think it is important people know as many details of this case so their comments can be well informed, I apologise for any lack of clarity over the incident prior to this posting:

1) I confirm that BBM and TOT were the essentially the same climb.

2) Spittoon shares the same line until the upper roof where BBM goes right, and Spittoon goes direct through the roof as described. Simon’s new variant (not published yet) goes up right of S/BBM/TOT, and then goes through the roof like Spittoon. We considered this variant but thought it looked too run out, with likely deck fall potential. Good effort Simon! Topo photos will follow eventually!

3) Spitton and BBM are run out, spacey trad climbs, but they are also safe and readily climbable in a ground up style now they have been cleaned. While Roger viewed this face as being suitable for sport, it is important to note that Spittoon/BBM are NOT extreme climbs ascending a blank face requiring a head point approach to be ascended safely. First ascents of difficult climbs frequently require inspection and cleaning, this doesn’t mean subsequent ascents require the same approach. Incidentally, I personally support people climbing head point style if they wish too and respect such choices as part of the great diversity of the climbing experience. 

4) Roger was aware the route had been recently worked as he found our chalk on the climb. We had also spent considerable time cleaning the route for lead (as the face was actually more flakey than most faces on the pipes) - it is unclear whether Roger noticed our cleaning efforts for lead ascent but Simon readily found the evidence of our gear placements on his second ascent as our cleaning of rock around a particular placement was rather obvious (ref: his comment above). We had told Jon Nermut about our climbs. Roger waited two weeks to see if anyone posted the route on thesarvo but did not enquire with anyone (see further details above in Roger’s comment). These facts are very important to me in the formation of our plan to remove the bolts if possible, as it says to me that the incident cannot be viewed as 'purely an accident' as some have suggested above. 

5) Roger, Tim and I have met and had an amicable discussion. This is a very positive event in itself given the considerable potential for acrimony. I remain respectful of Roger’s views even where they differ from mine. I urge others to meet face to face in similar instances. 

6) We delayed our publication for 3 weeks as we were advised to get topo-photos done. Three weeks is not a long time in my view, but all the same publishing quickly helps avoid mistakes and conflict, especially if you leave very limited evidence of your ascent of a climb.  In this instance Roger was aware of someone had worked on the climb, but in other instances this may not be the case so trad climbers need to be especially mindful in such instances.

6a) Further implications: I suggest that future trad climbers on the pipes, like sport climbers, might wish to work a route and this might create great trad climbs; furthermore they might wish to do this without the threat of someone bolting their climb. Therefore isn’t it reasonable in the future for trad climbers to try and communicate this if they wish too and that this to be respected? A standard approach should be discussed. Equally it would be very annoying for sport climbers if trad.ers claimed rights over wildly blank sections of rock just because they top-roped it once years ago and say they intend to head-point it one day. Such claims should be resolved on a case by case basis - it will not be a common event. More importantly, can we agree that climbers should avoid adding bolts or altering the rock without consultation if they think someone is working a route on that piece of rock even if that someone has not yet publicised their attempts? Roger has made it clear that he agrees with this point in principle. As an example, it may be that the chalk you see is because someone has ascended the face that very morning and not published the climb yet. The onus lies squarely on those bolting/altering the rock to inspect for evidence of attempts and enquire, since trad climbing a line requires no undoing, while bolting a trad route is difficult to undo and can ruin someone's trad climb for ever. For trad and sport to co-exist harmoniously there must be good will and attempts at communication in these cases. 

6) Some bolts on TOT have been placed next to bomb-proof natural protection. This is currently contentious on the organ pipes; there are numerous other examples/precedents to discuss. Views on this vary greatly. Roger prefers all bolted climbs, we prefer mixed climbs if natural gear is available, however this difference of opinion did not dominate our discussion together as it was not seen by either party as being the crux of this particular incident (since even the bolts not next to the natural gear also undermine the S/BBM climbs). The vast majority of climbers apparently view this cliff as one where sport, trad and mixed can co-exist. The question is how to they should co-exist, and this is where opinions vary.  I suggest that the local climbing community could attempt to resolve this constructively in a forum whereby the event is well publicised and inclusive.

7) There is an interesting discussion arising regarding the rights of a new router and the rights of the climbing community over defining the style of a climb. This debate may lead to a situation in which bolts could be added to existing climbs and equally could be taken away from sport climbs after community consultation. However, this debate is in its infancy and is far from resolved and I personally have not resolved my views on this issue. In any case, TOT was NOT an example of this process, it was a mistake, there was no consultation. In addition, Roger has apologised politely and decided to respect the tradition that the first ascensionist has the final say - we did not force this view upon him in any way. Therefore, we do ask others to respect our decision in this case given the very reasonable process that we have been through with Roger. 

I look forward to a constructive approach to the remaining issues that users of the pipes have pointed out as being as being unresolved. I see a much shared ground among the local climbers, especially from insights gaining during this episode.  I hope we can respect our differences, and work towards sharing our fantastic local crags in the most positive and inclusive way possible.   

Hamish

May I add that I had not seen the posts from this morning when I entered my lengthy post above, apologies if I doubled up on some points already clarified. 

well i guess i should write this up before its bolted!

on the face L of Berts Fear:

Mediocracy * 22 R 25m

Start at the base of Berts Fear. Climb the crack line, staying L of Berts Fear. Follow line up and across face to finish as for Spittoon. Take small gear, try to hide your disappointment when most of it wont go in. Not one for the faint-hearted. Climbed in SSS.

FA Simon Young & Liz Oh, 4/3/2013

I don't think so, i kinda realised something didn't seem right when the chalk stopped, there wasn't much gear and i was removing small micro-flakes from the only spots that seemed likely to accept gear. While the routes have been 'cleaned', holds that others and myself used will not remain on that cliff for much longer IMO. Definitely one to pull down not out on! It was definitely more a case of a bumbling muppet than anything. The dumbest part of the whole endeavor was climbing past perfectly bomber U-bolts!!

Tony has asked that I add this to the my description of Spittoon, but actually it may be best put in with Spitters

"Alt start: from the start of JALBit longer head up steep wall to a large cam slot, then right to ascend very loose flakes which improve with altitude. Also a good way to start Spittoon."

 I first went up this way when I trembled up Spitters for the first time back in the 90's  ...I believe others may have done the same  sometime prior.When I first tried Spittoon ground up I went this way but bailed further up. We subsequently decided to come in from right as the rock is SO much better.

Here’s another one on the pipes. Just a little climb, somewhat lacking any majestic qualities, but nice climbing and recommended to easy/moderate grade climbers who find themselves nearby given there aren’t too many well protected grade 16 face climbs on the pipes. 

Aperitif 35m 16*

Climbs the east face of the small buttress that is passed en route to the base of Avalanche Couloir (about 50 m passed the turn off to Black Magic ledge, and well before southern crest). Start at the arete and climb the weakness trending rightwards up the face past numerous horizontal cracks (good cams) to eventually reach across (R) to some flakes that cap a section of orange rock (crux). Up flakes to large ledge at ~ 18m. Lower off here (from tea-tree scrub); OR climb on up cracks above and left (old style, another ~ 18m to second ledge). Abseil from scrub, or escape via roped scramble to SSSI track above - less recommended. 

Dave James (and me) Jan 2013

Sorry about the rather poor photo. It is taken from the A/ Couloir  access track and shows the relative position of B.Magic Buttress looming to the north (+ Dave James in action). 

On Lower Great Tier

Prevarication  35m 17

Don’t’ be put off by the greenery, the  rock is much better than it looks. Start in the corner cack behind the trees at the LH end of the wall, 3m L of Kabling.

Climb the crack and step L at top, continuing straight up the main weakness to an orange fin of rock and the indecisions of Prevarication Wall.  When you have made your mind up, climb up and slightly R (crux) to the corners above. Finish over the blocks at a large ledge on the edge of the main Great Tier access ramp. Walk off.

T. McKenny, O. Gervasoni, A Beech, April 2013

*  Revival of the Fittest  50m  15    (High Court Cliff, Cape Bruny)
The thin crack R of Philadelphia Freeway (PF).
Harder at the start. High up, to avoid grass in the corner, move L onto the wall and climb the crack immediately R of PF.
As with all climbs on this cliff, take care with loose rock at the top.
P.Robinson, C.Rathbone    4/2013

Here’s some more new stuff up on the mountain from the summer just gone (RIP):

You Are Not My Friend  15m  17

But a big one helps protect the start. Start at short wide crack in a corner L of Sweepings. Up this to a ledge then continue up the steep flake crack. Belay in the back below the blocky chimney. A short and easy pitch leads to the top.
D. Rollins, C. Allen, Dec 2012.

Conjunctivitis  58m  22

Links Ophthalmia into the upper half of the wall to the R for a long pitch. Climb most of pitch 2 of Ophthalmia until just below the final bushes. From here, traverse R to arete and then head up this and the face on the R to the major overlap. Bouldery moves through finger crack in bulge lead to a widening hand crack and a stance on the arete (#4 Camalot). A reachy move R gains the airy face which is climbed to the top.
D. Rollins, L. Besnard, Mar 2013.

Am still working on a potential route up this wall that begins up the lower half... but I think the above route as described isn’t a bad way to approach the upper half of the wall.

Gladiator  35m  21

A distinctive line on the L side of The Arena, broken by a few ledges. Start on a broad sloping ledge at the base of an open corner L of Catacomb. Climb the corner to the first ledge, where an awkward seam and face continues past an alcove to a stance. A thin finger crack past an old peg leads into an easier hand crack, which finishes at a belay ledge with a tree. Double ropes are handy. A short pitch of thrutching up the back leads to the top of the cliff.
N. Deka, T. McKenny, Apr 1990. FFA: D. Rollins, J. Jane, Feb 2013.

Emo  20m  16

A couple of lines R of Punk is a hand crack passing an alcove halfway up. Rap from the slab at the top of Exit Entry down into Rockaway Gully and belay in small niche with a spike. Climb the line to the top.
D. Rollins, D. James, Mar 2013.

Peaches En Regalia  15m  20

The first line L of Adolf Builds A Bonfire. Some flared and quirky jamming, with an interesting move near the top.
D. Rollins, A. Shorten, Apr 2013.

And one at Ragged Jack:

Bomba Sirt  40m  17

The line L of Quinns with a large hakea at the base. Climb up the hakea, pull into the hand/fist crack and follow this to a small ledge at 10m. Up wider crack above past an assortment of holds, chockstones and horizontal breaks. Finish up short squeeze chimney and belay in large alcove just below the top.
Dean Rollins, Lisa Boyle, Feb 2013.

To the R of Thirsty Thirties is a rearing, overhanging wall bristling with roofs. The next climb threads an unlikely path through the difficulties to finish on the ledge at the beginning of Janzoon.

** Skyfall             42m       20

A cracker of a climb, bold, steep and sustained. Start as for Thirsty Thirties, at the foot of the short wall. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HKoqNJtMTQ)

1. 7m         12           Climb the wall to the big ledge.
2. 35m       20           From the ledge, climb the RH end of the wall, 3m R of the Thirsty Thirties crack, to a hand traverse back L to an overhanging layback crack. Climb through the roof, and follow the steep incipient line up with spaced protection to below a large open corner below a massive roof. Up the LH arête to an exhilarating hand traverse back R under the roof to a ledge below another open book corner. Thin bridging up the corner to a runner placement and welcome jugs. Finish up and L to the top of the wall and the belay ledge. Descent: abseil from tree, 42m, climb Janzoon or Tsing Gai or climb  back down R to the main Great Tier access ramp.

T. McKenny, P. Robinson, April 2013.

**No Name Yet  25m 26ish

Climbs Vapour Trail to just below the anchors, then head right up the steepest part of the crag via a rad boulder problem.

Garry Phillips 20/4/13

The old codgers have been out playing again in the autumn sun. Sooooo much better than working .

★ ★   Indian Summer             50m     16

An entertaining line on good, steep rock.   Start at the toe of the spur, just to the R of Breaker Spur.

1. 21m 15. Climb up the horizontals and then straight up the face of the spur to below a small roof. Hand traverse R to belay in the corner.
2. 16m 14. Follow the crack, with its hidden surprises, and pull up over the jammed block. From the RH end of the platform climb up and R to DBB.
3. 13m 16. Climb the crack on the L till a move can be made out onto the LH arête, keeping the hollow sounding flakes well to the R. Exposed climbing up the arête and wall to belay on a fin of rock.

Descent: Rap from fin (sling, 12m) back to the 2^nd belay, then to the bottom (37m).

T. McKenny, P. Robinson (alt) April 2013.

.

Indian Summer - Breaker Spur.   Here is another pic. of that area.

The old project in the Chasm on Northern Buttress has been done:

** Mira Mira  33m  28  (fully bolted)
"...on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?" The line of bolts on the R side of the chasm which links up to Vanity. A funky, bouldery start leads to a lovely technical head-wall. Stick-clip the first bolt and avoid the temptation to bridge across to the other side near the top of the chasm. Finish as for Vanity up to DBB. Grade to be confirmed.
N. Perndt, April 2013.

** Creeping death direct 35m  20

Rap in as for Beowulf, swing right around the corner and belay on small triangular shaped ledge. Great climbing up crack system to meet creeping death under the roof. Traverse left under the roof on lay backs. Get a knee bar in the roof and look down at your belayer dodging the waves. Finnish directly up the face.

Simon Bischoff and Dean Rollins, 2012. 

Cairn Column new route.    Probably have another go at climbing it in style next season.

No Beginning and No End                            20m       19M0                                                     Cairn Column

A crazy line starting at a seam half way up the south side Cairn Column.

Rap  40m from the top of Cairn Column to an airy hanging belay at the base of a thin crack on the south side of the column.  Probably safer for the belayer to stay attached to the abseil line.

Pleasant climbing up the face and thin finger crack to a ledge. Follow the fist size crack until it widens to a crux 3-4metres from the top. A fairly strenuous lead for old timers. DBB at a platform on ‘The Brush Tail Extension’. Exit by prussik or climb the last pitch of Brush Tail (28).

P.Robinson, K.Robinson                April 2013

Photo shows the line and Kim and Claire on Claire’s Tularaemia(25). Roger’s new route Anomia(24) is on the lower buttress immediately to the left

Companion route to Skyfall, shown in black

*Quantum of Solace 32m 22

Precarious and pumpy face climbing up an anti line. Start as for as for Skyfall.

1. 7m 12. Either climb up the short wall or scramble easily up the jungle on the R to the big ledge.

2. 32m 22. As for Skyfall  but at the start of the leftward traverse climb straight up the face to gain a series of overhanging horizontal breaks. Load up on good gear, then blast onwards up the seams past a bolt to the big roof. Make a long stretch up and  R to a bucket on the lip, clip the bolt and cut loose to muscle up to the ledge. Climb a metre or two of the final corner of Skyfall, before moving delicately L onto the arête past another bolt and up. Take RPs and micro cams.

O Gervasoni, T McKenny, 11 May 2013.

New Organ Pipes climb

Dal Nulla             35m  14                 Breaker Spur Area

The corner cleft 2m R of Smoke and Mirrors. Worth a look. Traditional so watch out.

Bridging and good holds lead past a jammed block to a bulge and short exit chimney. From the ledge head L and up to the Black Magic rap bolts.

Phil Robinson, Chris (Basil) Rathbone 25-05-13

Keen guide watchers would have noticed the new  Eldon guide. If not, check it out, there are 12 new routes there plus 4 projects on a couple of small sandstone buttresses about 50min from Hobart, with a pretty easy walk. On public land too.the routes have been done by myself, Dave Humphries, Guy Abel and Luke Einoder.

New Route on Alchemy Wall?! 

Hermes Direct Finish 25m 23ish **

Climb Hermes to two-thirds height then head direct up the blocky corner (crux) and thin crack above. 

Alex Lewis Aug 2013

A new one at Sphinx Rock :

★★ The Honey Gobbler 10m 22 4Þ
Takes the arete above where the walking track meets the cliff. The first bolt is a high stick clip to protect the bouldery start. Head up the arete then left at the top to the DBB above Duckpond.
Jon Nermut, Dave Humphries, Sep 2013.

A new route on Lower Great Tier:

Scrambled Legs                                20m       16                           Lower Great Tier

The buttress R of Zephyr.      RPs are handy.

From the track climb the wall to a ledge, the short face above and directly up the steep buttress (crux) on small holds to a mantelshelf finish and easier ground. Top out below Schizophrenic and scramble off R. 

Phil Robinson, Chris Rathbone   Sept 2013

Another one on the far left end of Sphinx Rock:

★ Akhenaten 9m 20 2Þ
The nice slightly overhanging face left of the Cheops arete. 2 bolts to DBB.
Jon Nermut, Sep 2013.

Dauntless Point

hi team here is a description and topo for a route Tim and i did nearly a year ago at Dauntless Point.

I've also drawn in the route for Dauntless and the access abseil. the first abseil for dauntless goes to a largish spike/boulder with a few slings- looking at the photo i couldn't quite work out where it is. Do people think i suggested the correct place? Also note the last couple of times i've climbed Dauntless i have done it in two long pitches. This requires a decent ability to avoid rope drag and perhaps paradoxically a tolerance for  climbing with  a bit of rope drag. I've also never been quite sure if i go quite the right way on the final pitch- traversing left and stepping off the slab and then up the left facing corner.... Do others  go more direct without such a leftwards traversing component and not stepping down off the slab into said corner?? Any other suggestions?

This would appear to be the first topo photo of  the route Dauntless (15) which may inspire some more ascents of a great little adventure climb. Don't be discouraged but it is a touch runout in places and the rock quality should always be treated with some suspicion. It would be a very intelligent decision to wear a helmet here and the converse would also hold true. Also consider that once you pull your ropes from the abseil you are reasonably committed. Retreat is either climbing up, or a long swim. No one will hear you scream.

Wu wei   

On the day Tim and i approached the described route  via the abseil to the start of Dauntless then did two traversing pitches before ascending (see topo photo). The first of these pitches is slightly tricky to confidently protect and slightly trickier to not give yourself a whole lot of ropedrag as it zigs into a corner and zags around a 'arete' then steps down to a belay stance. Of course if you are a good climber you may not have the same experience we did. This pitch could be harder than the described grade for Wu wei (14). The second traverse pitch is mostly very easy and uncomplicated.This was  a noice adventure and recommended as the way to approach the route but understandably most subsequent ascentionists (if there are any) may choose to Rap over the route to the base and climb back up. Consider though that the latter option may be over less sensible rock exposing climbers to a greater risk of rockfall. Potentially two long pitches would suffice. Your call.

 I haven't done much in the way of topos before so let me know if it looks ok or if it could be improved?

also, if anyone climbs the route subsequently please consider the suggested length of the pitches and whole route as approximate and be cautious with loose rock.

Wu wei      100m 14

1. 30m. Start at major horizontal crack/ledge 15-20m above the sea. Climb cracks and features on slab for several metres befotre traversing right to  a brief bulge/steepening and continue straight up slab to belay at the  base of right facing corner feature (not the giant left facing corner a few metres to the right), a more direct start would be possible but a touch harder.
2. 30m Climb corner passing small roof on the right and continue up next corner climbing right onto the next slabby wall about where the corner opens up with a lttle vegetation on your left. belay on the next rubble covered ledge.
3. 40m. Climb up and right , then climb left through weakness in 'rooves' and up poorly protected but easy slabs to the top. It could be handy to leave 10-15m of static rope here to make a decent anchor.
   Tim Whelan and Dave James 19/12/2012
   
   

10-20m of static is recommended to make an anchor at the top of this route and/or to make an anchor at the top of the abseil access to Dauntless.

 If by chance anyone has climbed this route before, please let me know and we can add details as appropriate.

wu wei topo 2.jpg

cool, cheers Jon. Dirty equation would also be viewable in the image. i think i can work out where it goes but i wouldn't like to draw it as i haven't done it. Inferno is not visible although the little spike on the left hand side of image is wheer it starts. Hamish might remember where Dirty equation goes... Has anyone repeated it?! it looks freaky!

I attached image-hyperlink below displayed pic above. is that what you meant? or would u like the original without the lines so u can redraw more formally??

yeah the original so I can it can be in the same style as the others in the guidebook - we are trying to get all the topos to match.

you could draw it yourself with the new tools if you can work them out: see: New guide feature - online topos 

otherwise just attach the original unadorned photo and it will take me 2 minutes to do in the new style 

wu-wei.jpg

yep that does make more sense.

i've been using 'betacreator'. free online software. its pretty fun.

if u don't mind redrawing, go for it.

i've got a few more things i wanna draw up so i'll play with the thesarvo tools next time.

the last 20m of the route u have unwhittingly shifted to the right a few  metres. Otherwise looks good!

Two new routes at Neika middle tier today:

★★ 33. Chucky Chuck 10m 18 4Þ
Probably the best easier climb at Neika. Start at the shallow crack to the R of Baltoro Blizzard, head up left on good holds.
Jon Nermut, Dec 2013.

★ 34. No Name Yet 10m 19 4Þ
Start as for Chucky Chuck, head R and layback up the seam. At the top head back L to the same anchor.
Dave Humphries, Dec 2013.

Here's the description for a new route I put up in 2012 on Precipitous Bluff with my brother. I am also going to draw up a rough topo, once I work out how to create one.

The Paddy Line 18 370m+

The route follows what is the easiest-looking line up the main face of PB, and starts up an obvious left-facing corner crack (the main face doesn’t have many obvious lines) about ten minutes after the track from the New River Lagoon hits the cliffline.

1. 40m Follow the corner crack into a chimney, then move up and R to a small ledge. 2. 40m Step L then head straight up to a big ledge at the bottom of a cirque, climb the R side of the cirque until you hit a ledge and belay. 3. 25m From the R side of the gully cross over to the L, climbing until you hit a ledge below a face-crack and distinct right-facing corner. 4. 20m Climb a crack R of face crack, which has a few tricky moves, the up to belay stance. 5. 45m Follow crack and chimney, which leads to a nice corner crack. At the top of the corner, make a couple of tricky moves up an arete, making a belay just above. 6. 40m Up and L to a vegetated corner, climb this for ten metres, then head slightly up and R another 30m to another belay ledge. 7. 35m You are now on a distinct ridge/arete. Follow this up until you hit the base of a wide crack, climb this to the top then make a belay on the next ledge up (at the base of another crack). 8. 25m Climb the crack until you are at the top of a pinnacle. 9. 100-150m Scramble L up the sloping ramp of scoparia and pineapple grass for 50m to the arete. Scramble around the arete then up the other side, roping up for a short pitch that leads through a distinct window in the arete. Unrope and scramble another 50 or 60m to the summit of PB, which you finish almost directly beneath. Lachlan & Ross Taylor (alts), 14/2/2012

That same summer we also freed Titan on Geryon. I have just modified the original description and included grades for all the pitches that were originally aided. 

Titan 19 365m

Described in Chris Baxter’s guide as a ‘scrubby monster that will go free to an offwidth master’, Titan actually went free to a pair of punters who found it to offer generally excellent and scrub-free climbing (definitely mossy, though) up a powerful line. 1. 48m As for Orion et. 2. 45m To upper R edge of scree. 3. Step right and up for 18m. Go diagonally R below a smooth wall and up a short corner. go to a steep crack which is climbed. Go L to a good ledge. 4. 24m Down L then up to a corner. Climb this for 5m to a scrubby ledge. Go 3m L to next corner which is climbed for 5m. Exit R to scrubby ledge below large corner. 5. 26m Was 17 A2, now 18/19. Sustained climbing past three (now rotten) wooden pegs to ledge on R, the single bolt anchor still looks remarkably good. 6. 21m Was 13 A3 now 18. Rather than aiding the face on L, climb straight up the corner crack and straight through roof above to second small stance. 7. 24m Was 13 A2 now 19. Climb line on R for 8m then climb diagonally right for 5m to a ledge. Easily R to next corner, which we climbed around by stepping R and doing a hard move into a corner then back up L to a ledge. 8 & 9 we linked together into one 50m pitch. Was 13 A2 now 17/18. Climb corner above to bushy ledge. The corner above is followed to a sloping ledge on the L. Step right, climb small corner on L, go R to V corner, which is climbed. Climb crack on R to stance. 10. 21m Was 13 A2 now 16. Climb corner to ledge on R. 11. 12 m V corner to stance on L. 12. 24m Was 15 A2 now 19. Climb corner above and move R at 6m. Go up R corner to roof, traverse R past a terrifying loose-looking block you can’t avoid pulling on (make sure you belayer is not directly below you). Climb up past an old bolt moving R, before moving easily up to a good ledge. 13. Glory ramble to the summit of the Foresight. Roland Pauligk, Rob Taylor (alt), Jan 1968. Freed Ross & Lachlan Taylor, February 2012.