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  1. What ever happened to mixed protection on rock climbs? Now routes that are written up as trad routes such as Skyfell have by my count 10 bolts that could be clipped on them, I dont think this is traditional climbing.

  2. It was retrobolted some time ago by the first ascentionist. But we failed to amend the guide. Thanks for the feedback

  3. Al because someone is the first ascentionist does not justify retro bolting traditional climbing. This seems to be a common misconception among the older generation of rock climbers, anyone punching bolts into a cliff that doesn't need them is committing an act of vandalism (not vandalism in a civil disobedience kind of way, more of the clear felling old growth forest sense, once you sink the bolts into the cliff the experience is changed or lost forever). I don't think this is the case with Skyfell, my comment was that quantum of solace and the slab below both routes do not need bolts as they can be easily protected, mixed routes are used to be the norm why has this changed? This is defiantly not the worst of the poor bolting decisions made in the last 10 years (smile)

    1. Agree with all you said DD, apart from the "defiantly" bit.

      1. If I could spell I would have a lot more to say...

  4. Do you mean the bolts of ‘Qantum of Solace’ are too close to Skyfall lessening the trad. experience? A pity if that is the case, I thought Qantum was a separate climb. There are many good sports routes on the Pipes. Unfortunately, there are bolts too close to a few trad. climbs. e.g. Kacktus , Great Bitch, Zephyr, Roaring Forties, Pugnacious, Skyrocket, Skyfall? This spoils it for those wanting a genuine gripping trad. experience. In the quest for more and more consumer friendly, safe sports climbs let’s hope the gun wielders spare our classic trad. routes. Thankfully this has generally been the case in the past. As for bold new trad. routes on the Pipes, unfashionable at the present time, I wonder if they are a thing of the past. There will be little unbolted rock before too long.

  5. As the first asentionist of QofS I added the bolts to Quantum of Solace (started with 3 bolts from memory) and the initial slab to get to the base of QoS and Skyfall. Decisions I though were appropriate at the time. Im curious, ill have to get back up there and do those routes again. Entirely possible I got it wrong. 

  6. Owen you didn't do anything that is out of character with the current state of the crag, my fight is with incrementalism, not you!! Phil I mean exactly what you say and more, the experience of rock climbing is more nuanced that simply climbing rocks for me, its more about being outside with the birds and trees and people and moving in a way that feels right and feels like it fits into the landscape and doesn't change it. The things that seem to be taking away from this are climbers cutting down trees to "clean" routes and installing lower offs on the top of trad routes and not really seeing the beauty of the place but rather seeing another route that they can bolt and put a star on and feel good about. Rap anchors that remove tat are a great thing, but every route does not need them. I have the feeling that "development" will keep happening and many of the beautiful things about climbing on the pipes with be lost forever if the way of thinking about development does not change.